Lee: Hello and welcome to Queer Talk, The University of Winchester’s first LGBT podcast.
Lee: For the purposes of this podcast, we will be shortening the LGBTQ+ acronym to LGBT.
Jess: So, welcome to Queer Talk from me. Queer Talk is an educational and entertaining LGBT podcast hosted by a queer student and an allied student at The University of Winchester.
Lee: My name is Lee Thair-White, I’m 20 years-old, and I identify as a queer transgender man. I’m currently the Chair of the LGBT Society, Spectrum, and I study Creative and Professional Writing here at The University of Winchester, which is how I met Jess.
Jess: Hi, I’m Jess, I’m 20 years-old. Some of you might recognise my voice from my Wednesday radio show. I’m an ally to the LGBT community, and I study Creative and Professional Writing alongside Lee.
Lee: So, I began my journey into the LGBT community when I was a teenager. I’d always known that I wasn’t straight, but I only began exploring my gender identity in full at the age of 15.
Jess: So, I’m not a member of the community but I am an ally, as I previously mentioned. It wasn’t really until I came to uni that I came across different cultures and different cultures and groups different to my own, so I wanted to learn more about my fellow students, as I’m a bit ignorant really.
Lee: So, an intro to the community: we’re going to start with the acronym LGBTQIA. It’s a bit of a mouthful, so we’re just going to break it down a little bit and talk about each of the letters and what they mean. This isn’t the only acronym, but it’s the one we’re going to focus on today.
Lee: The term gay is used to identify someone who is sexually attracted to those of the same gender. For those that identify as female the terms lesbian and gay can be used interchangeably, as the term lesbian refers to women who are sexually attracted to women.
Jess: Bisexuals are sexually attracted to more than one gender.
Lee: And it’s not the same thing as pansexual.
Jess: Pansexual is like boys, girl, and everything in between.
Lee: Yeah, sometimes it can be considered ‘gender-blind’, not in a bad way, but just enough that you accept someone’s gender but it’s not about the gender for you and your attraction, it’s about the person and their personality.
Jess: And it’s not about being attracted to pots and pans either!
Lee: No. That is a common joke and… we don’t like it.
{Both laugh}
Jess: Stop that.
Lee: Stop.
{Both laugh}
Lee: The T in the acronym stands for trans (which is me), it’s an umbrella term for those who do not identify with the sex they were identified as having at birth. Bit of a mouthful, essentially it means that when the doctor or nurse delivers you and says, “It’s a girl!” or “It’s a boy!”, it’s that. That is the gender you were assigned as having at birth.
Jess: So, how do you know you’re not that gender? Like, not to generalise, but I guess people would be like, “Oh, how comes you’re not just a tomboy?” How do you know it’s a bit deeper than that? Is it all research, or is it a feeling or both?
Lee: It’s both, it really is both, because I didn’t actually realise I was transgender, I knew something was up, but I didn’t know I was transgender until I came across the word and what it meant. So, for me, a big part of discovering my identity was actually research. Annoyingly enough, I found it on Tumblr, which is not the best platform but it has a lot of information. It’s all curated by normal people, just normal, everyday people, so it’s not the most reliable source out there. It is a feeling as well, it’s something deep inside that you know and, for me, I didn’t really get it until I was a teenager and my body started changing into the body I would grow into as an adult female. My brain just went, “Nope, this is wrong!” And I really did not like it, and that’s when I think I started to realise something was up – I didn’t realise until I was about 15.
Jess: Ah, okay. That makes more sense. Typically, the term transgender refers to a person whose gender identity is opposite the sex they were identified as having at birth, as you mentioned.
Lee: The term transsexual is a synonym for the word transgender, but it is used less often nowadays. This is due to the connotations that this term has with medical transition, and trans people may or may not undergo surgery and hormone therapy to obtain a physical appearance typical of the gender they identify as. Long story short, the term transsexual is more physical than it is a mental state. Like, gender is essentially a mental state, it’s what you feel inside – your identity. Whereas, transsexual has the implication of it being physical and biological.
Jess: Okay. I guess you can’t really have one without the other. You want to change physically because of something mentally.
Lee: Yeah, which is why the term transgender came into use, a lot of people were like I don’t feel transsexual works for me, it doesn’t describe my journey to get to that state where I’m fully transitioned.
Jess: Ah, okay.
Lee: And for those that don’t know what transitioning is, it’s simply the journey from one state of gender to another, both mentally and physically. So, socially going into the gender role you want to be living in.
Jess: These terms are not to be confused with the outdated term transvestite, which is another way to label a cross-dresser –a person who wears clothes designed for the opposite sex. I didn’t realise until quite recently, when we were planning for this podcast, that transvestite is actually an outdated term, I guess celebrities and the media, and there’s that song that everyone knows – I don’t need to say it.
Lee: From Rocky Horror.
Jess: Yeah, that one.
Lee: Yeah, I think people like Eddie Izzard used the term transvestite to describe themselves and it can get confusing because it has the word trans in it, people assume that it’s associated with trans, transgender and transsexual people, and it’s not. It’s actually just completely different. Originally, it was just a way to introduce people to the concept of ‘anyone can wear anything they want regardless of what gender they are’. That was the way it was introduced but now it kind of coincides with the way we identify ourselves nowadays, and a lot of people who grew up hearing the word transvestite assume that’s what a trans person is, but it’s really not the same thing.
Jess: The Q can stand for either questioning or queer. Questioning is a label that people typically use when they are trying to figure out their sexual orientation.
Lee: The term queer is a reclaimed term which, used in a negative way, can be extremely offensive towards LGBT people. Nowadays, queer is a label, for example I identify as queer, and it can be used as an umbrella term to describe someone who is not straight, or to describe someone whose sexuality is fluid or gender-blind. Again, that’s not in a negative way, that’s a way of saying you respect a person’s gender but it’s more about the personality than anything else.
Jess: See, I was probably more surprised about this one because I would have thought queer was more offensive just because of the not traditional but kind of olden-day connotations of it meaning ‘weird’ and stuff. Like, you would say “Oh, that’s a queer fellow.” But I guess even gay can be used negatively.
Lee: Exactly.
Jess: So, it’s all about context.
Lee: Yeah, it is all about context. And I find that using queer, for me, is just so much easier because there are many, many labels and having a label is comfortable for a lot of people, and it can be comforting to have this label. You say, “Right, this is where I fit. I’m not just different.” It can be a really nice thing to have a label on your identity, but queer is a looser label that I like to use because I feel that my sexuality is more fluid and it doesn’t really settle.
Jess: Yeah, I guess that you also don’t want to get into it with some random person you’ve just met really.
Lee: Yeah, having to explain the difference between romantic orientation and sexual orientation, which we will cover later on in the series, is not something I think you can explain to strangers on a whim.
Jess: No.
Jess: So, the I stands for intersex. This is a condition people are born with, of either having both male and female gonadal tissue or of having the gonads of one sex and external genitalia that is of the other sex or is ambiguous.
Lee: So, the term intersex is typically physical, it describes the physical condition. It’s different to the other identities in the community because it is a biological identity. Intersex is describing the biology of the person. I think quite a lot of people who were intersex kind of went, “This doesn’t fit with my gender – what is my gender?”
Jess: Yeah.
Lee: And they wanted to identify with how they born but they didn’t know how to do it. So, there is the term 'intergender', which means that your gender matches your intersex physicality, essentially.
Jess: Ah, okay. Also, the A can stand for multiple identities, such as asexual (which is a label describing someone who experiences little or no sexual attraction towards other people) aromantic, and agender, which we will explore in more detail later. So, stay tuned.
Lee: We will cover all of the different bits in a lot of detail. We do have a blog, which we will mention later on, and we do have a glossary up there for anyone who is interested. Whilst you’re listening to the show, in future episodes, it would be a great help for you when we’re referring to things and not explaining them.
Jess: And Ally is on the glossary, so go and check it out.
Lee: Ally, is a fairly simple term, most people will think it just means you’re supportive, and essentially, that is right. That is supportive. If you’re an ally, you’re someone who supports the LGBT community and you’re not necessarily in it but you’re supportive and aware of it.
Lee: There’s currently talk within the LGBT community actually, about the different acronyms. Of course, we’ve covered LGBTQIA. Now, that can be an absolute mouthful and it can be really difficult to remember all of these different acronyms. There are some longer ones, but I will not go into those, and as a queer person myself, I struggle with those ones. So, some people have suggested a new acronym, a simpler acronym, with the most widely accepted one being SAGA, which stands for Sexuality and Gender Alliance. But, this does not account for romantic attraction so there’s still some work to be done on that.
Lee: Moving on to the more serious topics; we’re going to talk a little bit about the legal side of the LGBT community. It can be extremely boring, but it’s really important to know the background of where the LGBT community stemmed from, in this country specifically. Although, there are a lot of really important things that happened in America, for example. America and the UK kind of coincide in the way that LGBT rights have come forward but obviously the legalities are completely different.
Lee: So, we’re going to have a look first at section 28. Some people may have heard of this. It is a government act that began in 1988 and this is the official statement: “A local authority shall not: (a) intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality; (b) promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship.” Now, this is incredibly harmful, as you can probably guess. This was implemented by Margaret Thatcher, and we will go into slightly more detail about that.
Jess: So, the implementation of Section 28 meant that LGBT groups and clubs around the UK were forced to disband and LGBT-themed literature was off the shelves in libraries. It meant that positive depictions of LGBT life were completely wiped out in schools. Essentially, councils were prohibited from funding of books, plays, leaflets, films, or other materials showing same-sex relationships, while teachers weren’t allowed to teach about gay relationships in schools.
Lee: This was a really harmful act that the government passed, and this was largely due to the fact that there was a lot of fear-mongering going on at the time. A lot of people didn’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle, as such, and a lot of people were actually unaware of what it actually meant. In Thatcher’s infamous speech at the 1987 Conservative Party Conference, which was met with a round of applause by the way, Margaret said, “Children who need to be taught to respect traditional moral values are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay. All of those children are being cheated of a sound start in life.”
Jess: Pardon?
Lee: Exactly, it sounds preposterous now. It sounds absolutely insane. But this was the mindset back then, which is why we really wanted to include this in the podcast, so that people know just how harmful it was when we didn’t have this information.
Jess: What does inalienable mean?
Lee: I think she was trying to say that young children were being taught that they could be gay without consequence.
Jess: Yes. Correct.
Lee: You can be gay without consequence, but in that level of society they obviously thought it wasn’t a very good thing to be gay.
Lee: It was the assumption that the heterosexual relationship is normal in society, and they were like, “You’re promoting something different, it’s not right.” Really not a good way to teach the children. It really isn’t.
Jess: On the day the clause was passed in the House of Lords, a group of lesbians abseiled into the House of Lords in protest, making national news broadcasts. I mean, I’m not really surprised it did.
{Both laugh}
Lee: Yeah, a group of lesbians abseiling into the House of Lords – it caused quite a stir.
Jess: How did they abseil into the House of Lords?
Lee: Honestly, I have no idea how they managed to pull that off without getting caught beforehand. But they did it. They managed to abseil in. They were immediately caught.
{Both laugh}
Lee: But they did it, and this was just to raise awareness essentially.
Lee: It’s the same thing as Actor Ian McKellen; he opposed the clause so much that he came out, publicly, as gay in order to fight it. Previously, he had been out to his colleagues and his friends, so a lot of actors who worked with him knew that he was gay, but he wasn’t publicly gay. So, he went on a BBC Radio broadcast and just outed himself to the world. And he said that this Section 28 was wrong, it was limiting people’s lives, it’s affecting them in a really negative way, and he came out in solidarity with all of the other people who were already out, and said I’m going to support everyone in trying to get rid of this horrible legislation.
Jess: Oh god… Is he Gandalf? Is he that one?
Lee: Ian McKellen is Gandalf, yes.
Jess: Good on Gandalf.
{Both laugh}
Jess: So, this led to the creation of Stonewall, which was originally set up in order to fight Section 28.
Lee: That was their whole motto, they began with that and now they’ve essentially, become the biggest LGBT charity in our country, and they fight for all LGBT rights. In recent years, they have adapted more to include trans rights than they have in previous years, so I’m really happy to have worked with them in the past and I know that Spectrum, the LGBT Society, has fundraised for them before and they are brilliant people to work with.
Lee: Section 28 was first repealed in Scotland in 2000 and in the rest of the UK in 2003, so it’s really recent.
Jess: That’s scarily recent, that’s like…Oh, quick maths, 16 years ago.
Lee: Yeah.
Jess: I mean, that’s ridiculous.
Lee: That’s insane. It’s in our lifetime.
Jess: You think, “Oh that was ages ago, we’re not homophobic now.” But, oh dear, some of us are unfortunately.
Lee: Yeah, this happened in our lifetime and unfortunately there are still supporters who disagree with it being repealed.
Jess: Sex between men was illegal until 1967, when the Sexual Offences Act came into force making it legal for men aged 21 or above, which is quite old that. And then, in 1994 that age was lowered to 18 and in 2001 it was lowered again to 16, again quite recently – making it the same as the age of consent for straight people.
Lee: It’s insane to think that there were so many barriers – you could be criminalised if you were below 21, for quite a long time. If there was any evidence of you having sexual relations, if you were a man and you had sexual relations with another man, you could be criminalised, you could go to prison. It’s insane.
Jess: It’s completely ridiculous. I’m not sure if I’m right in thinking it wasn’t the same for women. Obviously, it was still frowned upon but it wasn’t actually illegal.
Lee: Yeah, it wasn’t in law.
Jess: Because some queen was like, “Women can’t like other women, that’s impossible.” Just bizarre.
Lee: It is quite a bizarre concept to get your head around, luckily the age of consent is now the same for all people regardless of sexual orientation. But as those statistics have just shown, it wasn’t always the case.
Lee: So, now we’re going to move on to something a little bit more relevant and up to date. We have Hampshire Pride coming up on the 23rd of February, which takes place in Winchester.
Jess: So, the timings for the day are as follows: 12:00 – Assemble at the Great Hall. 14:00 – Embark on the Parade through Winchester. 15:00 – Indoor Festival and Market Stalls at Ell Court. 20:00 – After-party at the University of Winchester Student Union.
Lee: This will be taking place at The Vault, which is our lovely Student Union club. Some guests are; Adam All and Apple Derrieres, Misty Lee, Dexter Kidd, and Nicolette Street. There are some other ones being announced currently, so keep an eye out on the Hampshire Pride Facebook page.
Lee: I personally went to this last year and it was fantastic. Adam All is amazing, not only – Adam All, to explain, is a Drag King. So, typically, this is someone who identifies as female, crossdressing in an exaggerated male fashion. Adam All does it spectacularly, and I found that his performance was so great, there was lots of lip syncing involved and throwing confetti, and some other things which I won’t mention. Slightly adult content but it is an after party, it is for 18s and up.
Lee: With it being our local pride event, Spectrum always try to be as involved in Hampshire Pride as possible, and we would like to provide people with the opportunity to attend Pride regardless of whether they are in the community or an ally.
Lee: Quick background of Spectrum; I’ve mentioned that Spectrum is the LGBT Society here at The University of Winchester, and I’m the current chair for this year. We will be meeting outside the university reception at 11:30am to walk down to the start of the parade as a group. We really encourage a lot of people to get involved with the LGBT community. You really don’t have to be a part of it, it’s just to show your support within this amazing communal moment.
Lee: So many people have come since it first began, it began in 2013 and it was really small. Last year, we were in the parade and we couldn’t see the start or the finish, and it was amazing, there were that many people. So, if you’re hesitant to go to Pride on your own or if you’re interested in representing the University, say you want to stand behind the banner (we do have the Spectrum banner), you don’t have to be a part of Spectrum, you just have to be a member of the university. Come with us, stand in the parade, it’s really friendly. Everyone is wearing flags and banners, there’s lots of glitter involved and it’s a really great time. It’s just to show solidarity for everyone, whether you’re outside or inside the LGBT community.
Jess: I’m going for the first time, this year, which is really exciting for me. I have a rough idea of what to expect but I’m sure it’ll be completely different when I’m actually there. So, I’m going with Spectrum too and, as Lee mentioned, it’s not just for Spectrum members, it’s for anyone that wants to go, just wants to go as a group in place of going on their own – I mean, I guess it would be quite scary going by yourself.
Jess: Leading on from that, we have Dos and Don’ts for Pride Virgins. I’ll start with the dos; as I mentioned, find a friend and stick with them, or stay with a group you are familiar with (i.e. Spectrum), just so you don’t get lost or confused because there’s going to be a lot of people there.
Lee: A lot.
Jess: So, drink plenty of water throughout the day and remember to eat, whether you attend all or some of the events, it is important to look after your health.
Jess: Invite your friends, so try and get as many people as possible.
Jess: Bring any pride flags, etc. I’m going to have a little rainbow bow, anything rainbow really. Go for it.
Jess: Ask people their pronouns and how they identify instead of making assumptions because…yeah, don’t do that.
Lee: It’s really important. If you think someone identifies a certain way, I mean – their appearance might say that yes, they definitely do, but never assume. If it’s not relevant to the conversation, you don’t need to use pronouns or anything like that, then don’t ask them. But, if it’s relevant to your conversation or you need to address them in some way, it’s always best to ask their pronouns, just so that you don’t make people feel uncomfortable and so that you’re being as supportive as you can.
Jess: I guess, if you do make a mistake, don’t profusely apologise, just be like, “Oh, sorry,” and then just continue as you would. Don’t make it all about you because I know that’s kind of a pet hate.
Lee: Yeah, that is quite a pet hate within the community. We do not mind people making mistakes, sometimes it can be hurtful, but it’s all about that learning process. We know it’s not easy to learn everyone’s pronouns and identities. So, if you make a mistake, just say sorry and carry on – correct yourself and just carry on with what you were saying.
Jess: Is it better to say ‘they’ if you’re not sure?
Lee: ‘They’ is always a safe ground. Now, personally, if I don’t know someone’s gender or I’ve only heard their name, I’ll say ‘they’.
Jess: Yeah, just to cover all bases.
Jess: Leading on from that; arriving on time is crucial (before 2pm) if you would like to march in the parade. But if you just want to go to the market stalls, that’s at 3 o’clock.
Jess: Be careful, especially when drinking, not to let your drink out of your sight – it is still possible to fall victim to ‘date-rape’ drugs at Pride. If your drink changes colour suddenly or you taste something salty, STOP DRINKING, it’s not worth the risk.
Lee: Although this is something you might never have experienced but you’ve only heard about it, it can happen in broad daylight. Unfortunately, there are people who will spike normal drinks, not just alcoholic, and because there’s such a large amount of people there may be a few people who take advantage. It’s the same as if you went to a festival, any type of large gathering, you always have to be careful.
Jess: Is it better to bring bottled drinks? I mean, there’s probably still drugs you could put in there.
Lee: I would just recommend always closing a bottled drink once you’ve had a sip.
Lee: So, that’s our Dos for Pride Virgins. Moving on to the Don’ts; kind of similar to a point we made just now, please don’t assume the identity of people at Pride. For example, a straight couple could actually be a combination of different sexualities, or even just allies. So, they could look like a straight couple but one of them may be bisexual or pansexual, for example. Please don’t assume people’s sexualities either because it can be just as hurtful for people to think that you don’t belong within the community.
Lee: It’s a celebration, first and foremost, so please don’t try to police who is there. Anyone is allowed to attend Pride, as long as they are understanding and accepting people, and they are not being hurtful in any way.
Lee: Don’t forget that Pride is not just about gender and sexuality; it is about celebrating diversity, fighting for equality and being proud of who you are. A large part of why we do Pride parades in this country is to raise awareness that it is still an ongoing fight for equality, there are still things that we need to change, there are still people out there that don’t understand why we should have this equality, which is a shame but there are people out there like that.
Lee: Don’t feed the hate, so kind of the same thing – no body shaming, ageism or any other type of discrimination. Anyone of any age or body type can wear what the want and attend Pride. There can be people dressed in really extravagant outfits, please do not make fun of them, they are just being themselves.
Lee: And don’t get caught up in drama – it’s a celebration, remember that. There can be drama, there is drama in any community, there’s a bit more drama in the LGBT community sometimes, and if there is drama, don’t let it affect your day, have a good Pride.
Lee: One of the things that is really important: don’t expect everyone to explain things to you. This is why we have the podcast. Now, there are people who are very willing, like myself, to explain things to people. It can be slightly annoying if there is someone hounding for answers constantly. This is because there isn’t any resource available, but please do not assume that because someone is LGBT they are a resource for you to tap into. Not everyone is happy to be asked questions, such as the ones we can answer on the podcast.
Lee: If you do have any questions about Pride, please please please ask us, we will be sending out a survey after this on our blog. Please do fill that in if you have any questions or any feedback.
Lee: Lastly, don’t drink and drive. Simple as. Kind of only applies to the after party, I don’t think many people are drinking during the parade, but please do not drink and drive. A lot of people are in Winchester for Pride, it’s very busy, there’s an increased chance of someone getting hurt.
Lee: Moving on from that, we’re going to close up the podcast episode for today. We have mentioned the blog a few times. It’s a student-led blog and we will be putting extra information on there for you guys. So, it’s essentially a place where you can go to both read transcripts from the podcast, which we will have available at the same time the podcasts are published, and it’s also for you to read a little bit more about people in the LGBT community.
Lee: We will be writing articles, as well as asking other people to speak with us and get in their experiences. If there are any topics you particularly want an article written about, please do let us know. The website is ‘queertalklgbtqpodc.wixsite.com/blog’. The link will be in the description on SoundCloud.
Lee: Please do not hesitate to send us any questions. You can comment on SoundCloud, comment on the blog, you can even subscribe to our blog as well. I would also like to mention that this podcast is an excellent opportunity for people to spread awareness. So, if there’s anyone who has questions, just direct them to this podcast and we hope we can help anyone who has any queries at all.
Jess: No question is too stupid to ask, trust me, I’ve asked some very stupid questions that I think, “Oh, that’s so obvious,” but if you don’t know, you don’t know – it’s fine, don’t worry.
Jess: To wrap it all up, thank you for listening from me.
Lee: And from me.
Jess: Thank you very much!
Lee: Thank you!